After Victor Milan completely burned down Steele, we need to run back into the loving embrace of J.D. Masters/Simon Hawke. This time, we will be staring his most famous series Time Wars. The Ivanhoe Gambit, this Friday, 5 PM eastern. Don't miss out, or you'll have to invent Minus Time!
gellaho
gellaho
@Brockway can I get a pin, please?
jakesy “the korf magician”
Robin Hood huh
No shit
gellaho
Simon Hawke loves ideas. Including ones he already had
It's weird to have the knight with a tommy gun, right? Like, are they going back to Prohibition Era and then to Medieval times?
Straight Up Bad Person Javo
Gellaho: I am glad to be done
Also Gellaho: Brand new book series
gellaho
I was glad to be done with S.L. Hunter's/Victor Milan's hatchet job. I didn't buy these books for decoration
I bought them because I'm insane
gellaho
Half an hour until TimeWars: The Ivanhoe Gambit. Feast your eyes on this "thrilling" preview.
Cyberzone
I missed out on Steele, so I'm excited about TimeWars
gellaho
Let's see how good a writer Simon Hawke was five years before Steele
Deleted User
It's almost incomprehensible
gellaho
As a first action our hero, Lucas Priest, flees
Deleted User
I just want to say, before we get properly into it. This premise is dumb. Why did they not test to see if time travel would fuck with stuff?
They just assumed
gellaho
I'm trying to understand this. Their tour of duty is only measured in the present, I guess
gellaho
We've immediately been thrown into flashback
Cyberzone
To be fair, I'd run too
Do we know why the US army is helping Attila the hun?
Like, what's the benefit of doing that?
gellaho
They fight their wars in the past
Cyberzone
Yeah, but why?
Deleted User
Wait like, it's time slavery?
John, [singular fruit]
So, did our new hero have to rape and pillage?
Cyberzone
Oh, wait, I regret I asked
Deleted User
Yeah hes just throwing out how he raped peasants and burned villages like "ugh, Mondays right?"
Cyberzone
This is so fucking stupid
Deleted User
It's worse than steele
Cyberzone
They realise the "prosperity" from having a "wartime economic standard" comes from making shit, right?
Deleted User
Also pillaging loot
In older wars
Cyberzone
Which is something you don't have to do if you send your soldiers back to the past
John, [singular fruit]
Ok we disagree, but we get along well enough to have negotiations. I'm sure they could have found a better solution than war, but another time.
Cyberzone
That's clearly not what wartime economic standard refers to
gellaho
These SATs are "service aptitude tests." I have no idea what implant education is
Cyberzone
Yeah, you can make off with the booty
But it's different
gellaho
They seem to make a lot of uniforms. Otherwise 2613 seems pretty boring
Deleted User
I sort of feel like maybe, this premise wasn't well thought out
gellaho
Jesse worries me
Deleted User
Time travel is always bound to have huge plotholes but that's why you typical don't delve too hard into the rules beyond what's strictly necessary to know. The more you spend thinking about it the worse it is
Cyberzone
The only way this can make sense is that this is the bullshit reason they give for TimeWar, but later, they reveal the REAL reason
Deleted User
Which will also be stupid I'm certain
Cyberzone
Women be choppin'!
John, [singular fruit]
Our second rape mention. This is a pleasant read so far.
gellaho
I'm guessing the chronoplate is how time travel is achieved, but that's not explained
Deleted User
Wait does the vomit just stay there?
GDC
Yeah, those lost people are just covered in puke
John, [singular fruit]
You'd think eventually they'd at least have rules equivalent to a public pool. No time traveling for 20 minutes after eating fellas.
Cyberzone
In the space between spaces, there's the Vomit Zone
Deleted User
Hey, does the puke between time violate conservation of energy?
Deleted User
Stranded in a sea of vomit
gellaho
So, those two get drunk and talk about nothing. Then the flashback ends. Priest goes back to the same bar
gellaho
Jesse got stuck in the vomit zone
Deleted User
So like, if a guy gets lost off of earth and in another dimension, that's like a ton of matter just disappearing from the universe, is no one else concerned about the implications of that?
GDC
Also, I think they have a solution to their radioactive waste disposal problem.
John, [singular fruit]
I don't know that no one is, but I promise Hawke isn't.
Deleted User
It feels like he wanted to write the forever war but back in time.
gellaho
I don't have the patience to parse this
Cyberzone
Okay, so how many soldiers are fighting how many wars at the same time?
John, [singular fruit]
It's like Ready Player One for old guys who watch the History Channel all day.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
So you die of old age in minutes of real time.
gellaho
All of them
Cyberzone
Okay, but how many soldiers?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Also, Simon Hawke has a rape fantasy thing and it's gonna come up again.
Cyberzone
How many people are employed by the time military in combat roles?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
If you fight in the Roman age, come back but then go fight in the Napoleonic age, how many times can we deploy you? I think it's infinite.
GDC
Does napoleon ever realize he has a bunch of extra future people in his army?
Deleted User
Do they age in the past?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Also, I dont get any of it so far. Was he trying to stop Hannibal?
Deleted User
Wait yes
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Yeah so his buddy aged ten years in the past during five minutes passing in real time.
Deleted User
Sorry I had trouble parsing that
Cyberzone
That sounds like a pretty shit job
Deleted User
I kind of kept zoning out
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
This is already so fucking stupid
Cyberzone
Also, you'd die of old age before the week ends
GDC
Also if they sail with Lord Nelson, is the Time Army also the Time Navy?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Everyone would age out in a few days present and the battles of the past would be heaving with excess future bodies.
Deleted User
So I'm questioning the point of this novel
Like, why was it written?
Cyberzone
I want to understand the economy of the 2600s US
gellaho
Lucas, his buddy Robert Benjamin Johnson, a corporal named Hooker, and some guy named Finn Delaney are going on their own to 12th century England. I guess this is unusual
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Cos time travel is cool as shit
gellaho
Robin Hood fanfiction
Deleted User
Clearly not, this book is boring as fuck
gellaho
And if they finish they get to be done. Considering there are 11 more books, I don't see how that'll work
GDC
I can't not picture the referee in stripes and carrying a whistle.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
If they can produce a prefab hut why are they roasting pheasant.
Deleted User
You think someone would figure out the scam and do something to stop them right?
Like, you will never make your whole week
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Haaaaaawke!
gellaho
I forgot to mention, people can live to be hundreds of years old due to drugs
Deleted User
Wow, that sounds like a great deal, no way it ends up being fucking nightmarish
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Bald as an egg, wrinkled as a prune and as mean as a bear with hemorrhoids
Deleted User
Can you go awol in the past?
gellaho
An army of short dudes
Deleted User
Wow he's spending a lot of time on logistical details I can't even begin to give a shit about
gellaho
Uh, oh
Cyberzone
Oh, yeah, it's the height that's going to give them away. Not their inability to speak the language.
Deleted User
If you read a time travel book and think "but people on average were shorter how will they answer that" you suck and I hate you
Cyberzone
Oh, no
Deleted User
Hmmmmm
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I just, what? So they compete in the past instead of warring in the present. Directly interfering. But then fix the collateral damage?
gellaho
They got the government tracking chips
Cyberzone
Why not fight in the far future? Or VR?
Deleted User
Why not rip off robot jox?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
This is LARP ULTIMATE TOURNAMENT
Deleted User
It would be way more fun
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
How does this industry profit. Oh man I am all questions
Cyberzone
That's what I keep asking!
Deleted User
I refuse to believe no one could figure out how to disapear into another time period. Every new phone that comes out gets jailbroken before it even hits the shelves
Also it would make for a more interesting story
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
How many times can you steal diamonds from the past before De Beers doesn't have any
gellaho
A ref has gone rogue
Deleted User
Oh, cool actual plot
Also what?
Cyberzone
It's not even loot, I want to know how this "wartime economy" causes "prosperity"
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
The joke is we all live better than an English king from back then
Deleted User
This has to be simons fantasy
Cyberzone
Oh, boy, sure seems like travelling back to the past to kill people is a dumb fucking idea!
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
North of England in October, no heating, all food is boiled or roasted. Hmm.
Deleted User
How has nothing like this happened before? Has no one tried?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Haha, I shall change the course of a mediocre period of dull history. Go turn Africa into a technological Superpower before colonialism
gellaho
So, the plan is to kill that guy and replace him with this ref. Then this ref will follow history and let himself get killed
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Ok. Or.....just go a bit further back
Cyberzone
Okay, they have anti-aging drugs, and time travel technology, but they can't fake a fucking corpse?
Deleted User
This feels like about the point I'd crumple up the draft and decide not to finish this one
gellaho
Robin Hood fan fiction
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Heart of Darkness, in tiiiiiiiiiime
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
What are the tanks?
gellaho
Cryo tanks
They're keeping these four on ice and replacing them with these bozos
I guess you can't give someone a scar with plastic surgery
Deleted User
All this set up to write about robin hood
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
They are taking actual robin hood out of the timeline with their shit?
Deleted User
Why not just write about robin hood?
gellaho
I don't know enough about Robin Hood to understand why this is supposed to be significant
gellaho
That's involves far too few ideas
Deleted User
Main character of the historical novel ivanhoe
Cyberzone
Can they go back in time to a point where all of this made sense?
gellaho
They interrogated the merry men
Deleted User
So all these fictional characters were real?
gellaho
I guess. He eventually meets Dracula
But that's five books from now
Deleted User
Wow
Wild these got published
Cyberzone
Like, vampire Dracula, or the dude he was based on?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I don't think the author understands the difference
Ivanhoe was written in like the industrial age or something
Deleted User
Hawke didn't do anything super creative with the ability to write about literally any period in history being fucked with
jakesy “the korf magician”
He eventually does in his latest series
gellaho
Nysteel is back, baby
jakesy “the korf magician”
Hahahaha he loves the nysteel
It's his signature
Deleted User
Im just do confused about all of this
Every decision made so far feels like a bad one
gellaho
He meets Bram Stoker, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, and Author Conan Doyle in that book
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Wait what who. Is Lucas returning to England with a suit of armour made of Nysteel, pretending to be Robin Hood?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
That is a literary crime.
Deleted User
Wait the fuck?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
You know it's good to read something like this, which is actually incomprehensible, then go read something you've been struggling to finish.
So they have modern tech in ancient times and time travel. So there are no stakes from this point onwards.
Deleted User
I feel like he packs five paragraphs of exposition into ever two paragraphs somehow
Cyberzone
Why is it suddenly a problem that they killed a guy, when it wasn't a problem when they killed millions of guys?
jakesy “the korf magician”
Deleted User
And all of it is on the logistics of time travel
Which is boring and dumb
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
You take that back.
gellaho
I'm skipping over a whole lot of historic and folklore summary. Hopefully it's not important
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
12th century crusades. I wonder what Hawkes take on that is.
GDC
Isn't that just the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?
gellaho
Bobby, who is Robin Hood, has gotten involved in an archery tournament. I guess to prove that he is Robin Hood. Anyway, magic science arrow
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Wait is he cheating. Fuck him.
gellaho
Seems legit
Cyberzone
Of course he's cheating, how the hell is he supposed to live up to a legendary archer otherwise
gellaho
You don't want the people in the past to get your magnetic arrow
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Practice?
GDC
They could have avoided that situation by giving him 2 magnet arrows.
Cyberzone
When?
GDC
Anywhen!
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
This is *a time travel story
Cyberzone
Yeah, but he ages in real time, and the rules are not clear at all
Also, who gives a shit? It's TimeWars, not a gentleman's competition.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
My inner child objects to robin hood being dumped in a tank and replaced by a cheating imposter
Cyberzone
You've got the technology, so use it
Deleted User
I guarantee it isnt
Cyberzone
I understand that, but you can just concentrate on any of the other terribly stupid and wrong details.
gellaho
Sonic burst implies a sound. Wouldn't that be noticeable?
Cyberzone
No, it was like this:
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Are we supposed to be rooting for this guy?
"Oh no, I have lost my ridiculous advantage, now I only have my super armour"
Cyberzone
You're losing track of renegate ref they have to bring in, or else he'll fuck up all of history.
Despite the fact that they've been fucking up history systematically for a living for quite some time
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Yeah but they could just go back to wednesday and not let him into the time machine.
Cyberzone
Look, there are a lot of things they could do
The best thing would be to not do any of this TimeWars stuff
GDC
I'm really becoming attached to this group of unlikable fuckups.
gellaho
So they put a future sonic device in the lance, but still made it out of wood
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I am willing to accept the best way to resolve modern global conflict is time LARPING.
Cyberzone
Why not nysteel?
GDC
Is he just using the word sonic because he remembered it from a doctor who episode he saw once?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Atomic Lance.
Deleted User
So like, has anyone written about using time travel to vacation. Like a time travel agency?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I'm pretty sure there's been short stories I've read in anthologies
Deleted User
There would definitely be time travel sex tourism
Greg Solonzeg
I half-skimmed and caught up and I'm really disappointed that with the best future cheat Hawke could think of for an arrow is a button activated magnet
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Not in middle ages England. Unless it's a fetish.
gellaho
There was a bad movie called "A Sound of Thunder"
Deleted User
It's based on a short story
GDC
I think that was Ray Bradbury, wasn't it?
Deleted User
But like, I'm talking one where shit doesn't go catastrophically wrong
gellaho
I don't need this level of self-aware humor. You have not earned it
gellaho
This tournament is unending
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
No, they found a more strenuous way.
Deleted User
They found a shittier way to wage war
GDC
"We still do this in the future, only now sometimes people get lost for eternity in the Puke Dimension."
gellaho
This Lucas Priest is a real nice guy
Deleted User
Just a living hell
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
This guy has never read a book or an episode of a show without somehow getting 6 books out of it.
gellaho
Hmmm
Deleted User
Do you guys feel like Simon Hawke has issues with women?
GDC
So he still uses that word in his internal monologue, huh?
John, [singular fruit]
Jewess (n) - a term used exclusively by antisemites
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I don't think he's probably an active anti semite from that. He may just have had a sheltered upbringing. God I hope.
Do we do that for other religions? Hinduess.
gellaho
Multiple twists. The second best knight is a lady and has future armor
gellaho
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Boob massage in front of your little brother. Ok.
John, [singular fruit]
One page ago, Hawke said she looked boyish. There are probably a dozen other adjectives that would be a better prelude to this reveal.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
This is the kind of book I read as a kid and couldn't give a shit who was who.
John, [singular fruit]
I had to read this a couple times to be sure that the red knight and de la Croix are the same person.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
That's what I'm experiencing. The scene is described as though it holds three characters.
gellaho
Apparently Robin Hood is a drunk and Maid Marion's manwhore
gellaho
John, [singular fruit]
More than all the other problems with this book, I'm most bothered he chose to spell it Marion and not "Marian".
gellaho
This Finn Delaney guy seems to have a bad grasp on the time travel thing
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Oh fuck it all then.
Just fucking airstrike him.
Fuck you Hawke I hate you.
John, [singular fruit]
Shit, I forgot we're pretending these fictional characters are real.
gellaho
In a classic sitcom mishap, the lady pretending to be a man has caught the eye of another lady
gellaho
OK, maybe more aggressive than that
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Contrived to procure. The best words Simon Hawke ever wrote down together.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Whoa.
John, [singular fruit]
Another scene with 2 characters that sounds like there are 10.
Also, yikes.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I'm going to play hard to get more often.
gellaho
Goat Spores
John, [singular fruit]
Who wants to bet Hawke thinks a lady can't rape a man?
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Goat spores?
gellaho
Somebody say rape?
gellaho
GDC
nobody said rape
John, [singular fruit]
We only expressed disgust for it.
GDC
As an imperitive, I mean.
John, [singular fruit]
So gross. You can rape the girl, but not the boy. Creep.
gellaho
Hawke does this thing where nothing happens for a long time and then starts rapid firing off story
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Hawkes sexual harm preoccupation is genuinely disturbing.
gellaho
Classic weird descriptions from Hawke
John, [singular fruit]
Hawke has never spoken to a woman, much less had sex with one.
gellaho
She's working for that rogue ref
John, [singular fruit]
And stop calling her boyish. Your description was closer to "mannish", but that's gross so don't say that either.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Do you feel that he writes like he thinks a more manly man will judge him? Like maybe his dad threw his stories out as a kid, "Forget these silly things Simon we're Brick knockers son"
John, [singular fruit]
It does make sense as overcompensation or being closeted. I'd feel bad making fun if it's the latter.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Maybe years later they found closure. On his father's deathbed
"Ah Simon, it were I that were wrong, for where I see beauty in a knocked brick you have it in your clever words. Oh my Simon. That'll do"
John, [singular fruit]
"Sorry son. But seriously, why was Steele absent for most of his own books?"
gellaho
So we're back to this stupid tournament. May I present electric sword
gellaho
And horse fart
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Fucking cheater. I'm on the villains side.
GDC
half an amp isn't, like, a huge amount.
John, [singular fruit]
Half an amp is almost certainly fatal.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
"Ah Simon I must ask, what does a barely 16 years old 20 year old look like son? Simon get out your sisters room mate"
"What was with the human dick thing? I told you I was sorry about the accident at the zoo when you were a kid."
GDC
"Above 200 milliamps, the muscular contractions are so severe that the heart is forcibly clamped during the shock. This clamping protects the heart from going into ventricular fibrillation, and the victim's chances for survival are good."
He actually made it too high.
John, [singular fruit]
Shit, my bad. I remembered wrong and only half read my source.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Oh that's such a great time travel move. I am all in with the villain. Did we know what his motivation is?
GDC
Either way, this is a time sword. It should be like, a gigawatt.
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
I didn't mean it when I said you could never be a real man Simon.
gellaho
He wants to be the King of England
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Oh, I thought that was like step 2 of 7
gellaho
I'm being treated to a long ass logistical discussion about time travel
John, [singular fruit]
If one dude can fuck up the timeline so bad, how can they ignore the thousands/millions of time soldiers?
I give up trying to make sense of this.
gellaho
Boy do I hate it
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Am I mad or do modern books have larger spaces in-between paragraphs.
That looks scrunched up like a crazy person's notebook
GDC
Seems like all this time travel stuff is more trouble than it's worth.
John, [singular fruit]
Depends on the book. This looks like some of my cheaper books that try to use as few pages as possible to reduce costs,
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Time travel has been invented many times. In every timeline it has been, the very next act after invention, is a weary person popping into existence to kill the inventor burn their research and fade away.
GDC
I know that was the exact plot of an episode of the X-Files.
gellaho
Here's Marion. All women need to be young
gellaho
This is weird
gellaho
Lucas got attacked by the lady knight and now he's being taken care of by some old hippie
gellaho
Future hippy
John, [singular fruit]
I call bullshit. No one would choose to live in the 12th century and give up every amenity.
gellaho
He has a time machine
gellaho
Which implies that he has a way to generate electricity
Mithras Orienteers as Frosty
Now we're talking.
gellaho
You wanted to know Irving's motivation? He's trying to prove a theory
John, [singular fruit]
Shouldn't they already know the answer? That first referee's job was to die as King Richard.
GDC
This is the sort of thing you should figure out before you send LARPers back in time.
gellaho
This is a brilliant idea. If, like, birds and weather didn't exist
John, [singular fruit]
Thankfully Earth, the sun, and galaxies are stationary in space, right guys?
Apparently there's no room in the budget to give everyone a jet pack.
Deleted User
See all of this proves my point from way earlier, he keeps trying to get real inepth with how time travel would work but ends up creating more plot holes
GDC
And why don't they just skip a step and give the soldiers those floater packs?
Deleted User
If he just didn't bring it up I wouldn't either because like, who cares it's a story? But since he has brought it up I must now actually care
gellaho
This deserter's story only works if we hadn't already met the merry men
gellaho
The army implants follow coconut on the head rules
Deleted User
Has hawke ever written a love interest old enough to drink?
gellaho
Raven was 22
Deleted User
I thought she was 18 when they first met?
GDC
The time army doesn't know how time travel works and all their equipment immediately breaks. This army sucks.
gellaho
No, she was a teenage prostitute for many years
This future hippy is wild
John, [singular fruit]
No, he bizarrely described her as a 22 year old with the face of a 16 year old and an 18 year old's body or some shit.
Deleted User
Ok yeah, definitely way better then
gellaho
These future guys decided that hygiene is the most important part of training. Also the last sentence is something else
GDC
To be fair, I would do that in the middle ages too.
I mean, not the moderating my drinking part, obviously.
gellaho
Turns out that kid who was time travel garroted did it to himself to prevent being tortured and interrogated by Irving
gellaho
Seems like there are better ways to commit suicide
This dude is fucking crazy
gellaho
These guys are fight by time traveling back and forth. One has a Tommy gun, and the other a sword. This does not work in text
gellaho
This isn't going to fuck with time at all, no siree
gellaho
The bad guy dies on accident. He pulls back the lady knight as she's trying to kill a knight and she kills Irving instead
GDC
So far the plot of this book is that unlikable, incompetent people with shitty equipment fuck up history and then fail to fix their own fuckups.
gellaho
After that they go home and Lucas becomes a Time Commando. The last two chapters are devoted to the lady knight killing the knight who killed her brother. She also saves the Jewish woman from the beginning.
She's hanging out with the old crazy future hippy
GDC
I had assumed Simon Hawke had forgotten about her.
At least she has a name.
gellaho
She showed up every once in a while, she got kidnapped by some knights. But she didn't really do anything
She keeps getting called a healer, but she never healed anybody
GDC
Maybe she just made them get rid of their pubic lice, too.
gellaho
The epilogue is literally just about Lucas recruiting people at a recruitment center
GDC
Our hero, perpetuating the horror.
gellaho
Anyway, that was pretty boring. Don't know how there are 12 of these
gellaho
This is the only good part of the book
GDC
The more he worldbuilds, the less the world makes sense.
gellaho
Anyway, one more book down. Onto the next adventure
GDC
ALL HAIL STEELETRON
gellaho
The worst part is that, despite all the explanations, the book never really explains how or why the world agreed to this form of combat
Brendan
Hannibal was NOT a berserker general, Hawke, you HAVE to know this.
jakesy “the korf magician”
Minimal lip action. Not ideal!
Deleted User
Well, turns out simon hawke got better as a writer